The Day Licensing Walked In and Everything Went Wrong

In this episode, Katy and Jessica walk through a stressful and all-too-relatable moment—a licensing visit where everything seemed to go wrong at once. From unexpected challenges to high-pressure decisions, they share what happened behind the scenes and how they handled it.

They also reflect on what they learned, what they would do differently, and how childcare providers can better prepare for licensing visits. This episode is full of real talk, practical advice, and reassurance that even tough days can turn into valuable learning experiences.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Hello and welcome back to Childcare Confidential. I am one of your hosts, Jessica Hampton, and this is my lovely co-host, Katie Dean. Hello, everybody. Hello. Okay. Today let's get into it. We're going to talk about licensing today. Okay, the day licensing walked in, and everything went wrong. Been there. Yes, yes, I have. I'm sure a lot of us have. But you know that feeling when licensing walks in unexpectedly. Yes. And your stomach just kind of drops. Yep. That was that day. But sometimes it's a little worse than others. You mean what?

SPEAKER_02 1:05

You can't plan for it? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Well, the funny thing is, and I'll just kind of put this out here now. Okay. I've had a licensed in home. Okay. I've had an unregistered ministry, and I've had a licensed center.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

And they've all been on our state quality system throughout. So I thought I knew everything. Of course. I thought I knew everything. Well, with our licensed in homes, we would get a phone call before they actually showed up. Oh. Yeah, I thought that was strange because when I was in an unregistered ministry or a center, they just show up. And I think that's because they're in the building. Yeah. Um, but so if you're looking at inspection reports online, make sure you know what kind of place you're looking at because some people do get a heads up. I'm not saying all in homes get that. Do not get me wrong, and this was years and years ago, but it did happen. Okay. Um, so keep that in mind. It's a disclaimer. It's a disclaimer there. Throw it in there. All right. But let's talk about it. The chaos. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

All right. So imagine this, right? They walk in and they're happier than a clam because they're here to ruin my day, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:23

It sure does feel like that sometimes, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 2:26

But they got a clipboard in hand, they're cheesing, they got the rolling part. But immediately we're like, oh, you know what? Because it's about to be one of those. Because are we ready? Not fully. Are you ever fully ready for them to go? No.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

No, no, because I mean their job is to help and find something that will help you. Um, so you always feel like they're gonna find something. I mean, we've had everything from our drinking fountain sprays too high, um, to you know, the toilet paper wasn't put on the toilet paper roll. It can be the dumbest thing. But that's your but there's always something. It is such a big cut thing for me because well, because I'm like, we are not gonna get the dumbest licensing rule wrong, you guys. We're just not going to. That's ridiculous. But it's something that happens more frequent than not with that toilet paper. So it's literally I would go behind every night fixing all the toilet paper rolls. You make sure we were ready.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

You did.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Uh okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

But yeah, so you're taking me out of my mojo, Jess. Okay. All right. I got Betty Sue coming in with her clipboard. She's smiling, she's got her pin, she's ready to ruin my day. It's already one of those days because I spilt the coffee, there's kids screaming, teachers need all the things, and then you showed up to run at drop-off time, too, you know, like always the most crazy time. Oh, everything though, when you have those moments, it feels like it's unraveling. And like Jess and I love to go into detail, talk about our experiences, how we kind of come back from really unfortunate situations, or not the greatest viewpoint of childcare in general. Yeah. Like we've had too. It's real. But everyone feels that way at some point. And if you haven't, then I think you might be lying to yourself.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Right. Right. Because okay, your panic is setting in. Yeah, your staff are kind of looking around, going, okay, oh, who's that person? I saw this person walk up by the windows, you know, and so they're already like on edge, what's going on, and they're fixing things in real time. Man, when we do fire drills and stuff or different things, uh, to watch the cameras while everybody's find your diet cup because you can't have a labeled cup in the classroom. And guys, when I tell you these rules are insane, some of them are insane. Um but we all have to follow them, and so they're like scrambling, you know, and and we do everything we can to make sure these things are done every day throughout the day. Um but the truth is you can't make systems under pressure. What? Yeah, so we like to think that we don't have to follow the rules sometimes, not we, all of us in the rule followers, so um, but we like to think that we don't have to follow the rules sometimes, and then we expect everything to go great during a licensing visit. You can't fake it. No. So, you know, I don't tell our staff when the tours are coming, like our admin team does because they have to get the tour, but we expect them to be ready, right? Um, because this should be the system they're following every day.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

It should not surprise.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

But there are times too where you may just not know that you're doing it wrong. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 6:16

For example, I feel like you've got something to say.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Let me share. So, like I said, I've had a licensed center, a licensed or an unregistered ministry, and a licensed uh in-home childcare. And so I moved from the in-home childcare to the ministry, and there were a lot less rules to follow in Indiana, moving from a licensed in-home to an unregistered ministry. There were less rules. So then we get on past to quality, and on the unregistered ministry, we're past to quality level three. And so I'm like, okay, we got everything, we're up to like licensed center standards. I got this.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

I do. Yeah, you are.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

I didn't have it, y'all. I did not have it. Not for you. My licensing visit at the licensed center informed me of some rules that I was not aware of that are just for licensed centers. That's so nice. Um, one of those rules was a 13-month age gap rule. So even if they're siblings, if you have a two-year-old and let's say I make it easy. An infant and a two-year-old, okay? They're obviously more than 13 months apart. They could not be in the same room together. What? Even if they're siblings. So now you're like staffing three people for the two kids that come at 6 a.m.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

You know? Wait, Jess, freeze frame. Mind you, this is Jess is giving the story as if like she literally went through this. It was a whole thing, she's gonna go into it, but that's not even a rule anymore. Because if you remember a few months ago, they decided it didn't need to be a rule.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

All the pain I went through. All the pain, we're ready. So it's not it's no longer a rule because somebody decided, hey, this is dumb. I'm staffing three people for siblings. Like, what? No wonder childcare costs so much, but we will go into that another time. Okay, um, but there was this 13-month rule, and I had never in my life heard of this rule. I had worked at licensed centers, okay. None of them apparently followed the rule. Um, knew nothing about it, and so our new consultant comes in, and she was kind of like the head honcho of consultants. She was fantastic, but she informed me that day that about that rule, which we weren't in trouble for at that moment, but she was informing me about it because we were in trouble for what they wanted to call ratios.

unknown 9:00

What?

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Now I'm a ratio follower, y'all. Yes, you are, but licensing can be very picky, and so we were smaller as a center when we first started. So we had a big school age room, and we could put two of the classes in there to nap together at nap time because the ratio got cut in half. So we put two classes in there to nap together, and so the teachers could break each other. Well, all that's well and good. We were all within ratio standards, everything was good. At the end of nap time, we would send a couple extra staff and men team to go down and help out to get the kids up, and then the school age kids were coming off the bus. So the school age kiddos would be coming in, and then that staff would be getting the kids up and out the door. So both classrooms are lined up, right? The kids that are napping in the room are lined up on their side of the door, and the school age kiddos are lined up in the hallway and they're ready to make this transition, right? So they're going, they're walking, they're kids are coming out, kids are going in. Well, the school age teacher took the kids into the classroom to go sit on the carpet while the other kids were getting the kids out, and because that happened inside the classroom, uh-huh, even though we had two extra staff members in the classroom getting everybody settled, right? And it wasn't chaotic, like it was a smooth transition day. Um, but because it was inside the classroom, they wrote us for ratios. And we were told if it happened in the hallway, we would not have gotten written for ratios, but because it happened inside the classroom, we are now written for ratios. Please make it make sense.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

You can't actually make it make sense.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

How does it make sense to transition the kids in a smaller hallway than it does the big gigantic school age room?

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Just go do this, it's fine, it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

So up until that point, I directed with logic. I thought, well, this makes sense. And at that point, I was like, you just can't make it make sense. There's no logic, just can't make it make sense. So, but the hard part was I'm a news center, I'm told about these rules I didn't know anything about, which I also thought were completely dumb. Um, but I'm a rule follower, so I was gonna follow them. Right. But if you looked up our inspection report, all it said was ratios, which could mean so many things. It could. And it was heartbreaking because I'm like, actually, we were overstacked, but that's that's not what it says. So when you are looking at reports, make sure to ask the school you're touring about what exactly happened. Um, because sometimes I will tell you that our licensing report online is not accurate, and the state has even admitted that it is not accurate. I do have it in writing. However, they will not change that, they refuse to change it.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

So I just let it go instead of getting a lawyer and dealing with all that stuff again. Um, just let it go because our families know us.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Um, come to find out all that pressure that we put on ourselves to make the reports look good, it doesn't work. So just stop putting that pressure on yourself. Right. Talk to your families about what's happening. But yeah, so in that instant, I was a leader that was leading with incorrect information.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Not incorrect information.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

So I thought we were doing it all right, but when I had that meeting, my stomach dropped. I'm like, what do you mean? I mean, how does that mean right? Yes, my licensing person at that moment looked at me and said, Well, because I'm like, Well, what do you mean? She's like, Look at me. You are not a ministry anymore, you are a licensed center, you need to get your stuff together, and that hurt a little bit. I'm not gonna lie, because I was like, What do you mean? Yeah, probably let us three unregistered ministry. I got this. Be like, don't tell me knock down a few notches after that. Was that some humble pie?

SPEAKER_01 13:28

A little humble pie for you then with a little humble pie.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

But you know what? We haven't been in trouble for it since.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

No, we haven't. Okay, well, I'm gonna do you one better. Are you ready for this? Oh boy.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

I really didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

This is back in the day at my previous um place of employment, which may or may not be a corporate child care center. Okay, because we're child care confidential. I'm keeping it confidential.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

There we go, there we go.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yeah, so we are. I'm working for this corporate child care center, and they're like, I need you to go assist at one of your sister schools. And I was like, Of course, I'll go do that. So I go on over and I'm in charge for the day. Never been here before, don't actually know any of these teachers or children, but yes, I would love to be in charge. So I'm doing my thing, and of course, this is why I say she came in to ruin my day because she comes in with the clipboard and her smile. And I've never been here, so this is gonna be new for both of us. So she walks in and she's doing her thing, and you know, she's counting kids and whatever, and she comes in and she goes, So um, none of these teachers have background checks on file, not a single one of them in this school that you're operating for today.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Have a single not a single one has a background check on file. Um I'm not gonna lie, I've had staff come to me from other schools in the area that had never had a background check. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Tough.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

So this licensing lady, you can tell she's taken pity on me because she knows it's not my fault. And I'm like, I don't know what to do here. So we close the school down for the day. All these kids have to go home because none of these teachers are allowed to be in charge of these kiddos. Yes. And do you know what corporate tells me?

SPEAKER_00 15:32

What?

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Well, you should have known. How? How would I know? I don't work here, I work there and I'm just assisting. Well, apparently, we're all we're in a buddy system, so we should all talk amongst each other. And so apparently, if I'm doing top secret, not above board stuff like hiring people without background checks, I should call thy neighbor and let them know that I'm also doing that.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

Or do your job correctly and get the background check before they start. It makes logical sense to me.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Yeah, you wow. But in this instance, that is also a ratio violation because there was no supervised teachers with any of these children inside the classrooms. Uh so yeah, I like what you said about making sure you read those inspection reports because you just actually don't know.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

You don't. You really don't know. I mean, I know like on our chatters and stuff, everybody's like, go to FSSA and read the reports, you know. Anytime anybody asks about childcare, and I just want to be like, um, the person that commented that is the person that got in trouble with licensing at this school over here. And it's actually them that you're reading about on the licensing report, but don't worry, they went ahead and went to another school.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

So now the school they were at that got in trouble for whatever reason is left holding the bag while this child care provider is able to go to another school and tell people all over online to look at the inspection reports. And it's like, wait, what? Yeah, it's because that person wasn't listed yet. They don't list names of the employees, yes, and so yeah. So we've had that happen to us a couple of times, um, where a staff member got in trouble for something crazy, you know, or whatever. Um, and they went to other schools right down the street or in the area, and we can't say a word about it. But yet they're the reason. And I'm just going, hmm. I really wish there was a better system for them. Like if we need to because that person shouldn't be able to hop from school to school and kind of do different things like that. Um, but it does happen, unfortunately. But yeah, so I mean, that critical moment that you go through, you start asking, or they start asking the deeper questions when they're in licensing, right? And you get the one nervous staff member. Oh what do you what do you mean? They should not. Yes. We have been there where like all of a sudden your staff can't count and they tell them too many kids or not enough kids or the wrong ages, and you're like, right, no, no, no. Let me clarify. But people get nervous. I've seen it time and time, especially people that work with kids. Yeah, sometimes people that work with children do not communicate very well with adults, um, because they spent their whole day communicating with little, and sometimes that scatters our brain up here a little bit. And so we kind of just freeze sometimes. Yeah, yeah, you know, that's okay. That staff person might not be wrong in what they're saying, but it might not be aligned with your vision, too. And so now that situation that you thought you had handled has escalated a little bit, a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

I mean, but yes, it is escalated. Yes, it is frustrating, but what I feel like the biggest hiccup is is when you have the aftermath to kind of deal with. The aftermath I always feel like is the worst because you have that like gut punch feeling where you you just feel like you're in the wrong, even if you weren't. Like in your instance, you had no idea you got your slap on the wrist for something that you actively just didn't know. Well humble pie. But I mean, it it sucks and it hurts.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

It does.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

Well, what actively hurts more is knowing that it would have been preventable had we had like accurate communication or information leading up to that one instance. If you would have known that rule, you would have known not to do it.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

If I would have gotten my bestie call me from the sister school to tell me that they chose not to have anybody have background checks, I would have known I'm just gonna say, hey, if you would have gotten that phone call from your bestie, you would have known that nobody had a background check and you should just walk out the door if license deep. Nobody called. Nobody did under the bus on that one.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

I definitely got rolled over more than on one occasion, actually.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Oh, that's not fun, not a fun time at all. Um, so you know what happens after everything's said and done. So our licensing, they go through everything, they're ready to like walk through as soon as they get in because they know everybody saw them walk up from the parking lot. They know, and so they're ready to just start walking through. And we show them around or let them kind of do their thing depending on if they're newer or not. You know, our reps change all the time, and we're a little sad that they just changed again. I know, but that's okay. Um, but you know, they go around, do their thing, and then you come back in for your meeting, and they're just saying all these things that they have found, like the drinking fountains spraying too high, so they're gonna write you up for that. Um, things like that. Thank you. And right because that's what's important while we're educating little the water got on the wall. Um not like they don't splash water on the wall anyway. Okay, random tangent thought there. Um, but we have to talk about the aftermath. So licensing leaves. So what do you do? Like we've got you know, pit plans and write-ups and right all the things, but that stings like uh but what hurt more? Was it knowing that it was preventable or was It not knowing the information, you know. Um, so I think you have to take everything that you've heard from licensing and take those into teaching moments for your team. You don't realize when they walk in what they might find. Um, like the drinking fountain, for instance. Again, you just don't realize, hey, my tripping fountain sprays too high. Like, I need to fix that. Right. It's a little knob underneath in case you needed to know. I learned the hard way. Um, but you have to rise to the occasion. You don't want to fall short. And so it's important to take those teaching moments and you can create a video, you can do a teaching, you just listen to an email. I too love a good video. We have a lot of training videos for like everything under the sun. Um, but you want to make sure your staff is has that corrective action or that plan to improve so that it doesn't happen time and time again. Like I said, I ate my humble pie. Yes, it was not fun, and I actually had to tell my staff, I am so sorry I did not know about this rule, and I put you in a difficult situation because I didn't know. And that's leadership because that that was not fun for me, but it's what needed to be done, and then I explained the rule and the why licensing thought that rule was important. I may not have shared with them that I thought it was dumb because that's not what you should be telling people you're leading. But I was like, now that we know we're gonna fix it, right? So licensing shouldn't change the behavior of your school. Uh, if you're not following those rules already, you're gonna have a really hard time following them on the moment because systems are not built that way to be followed spontaneous like that. Systems are built to be a foundation for what you should be doing every single day. And licensing shouldn't change that behavior, it should actually reflect it. So, I mean, think about your quality inspection. You know, you get all ready for them, you're ready to go, you know it's coming, right? But why aren't you doing that every day? You know?

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Maybe we also just give a little extra dash of super stardom on the day of our visit. Okay, Jess, leave us alone.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

A little super perkiness, but I'm hoping everybody's doing what they're supposed to be doing. Yeah, we just arrived with a small ready to go. Yes, yes. So if you have not heard yet, before we close, we want to tell you about our new thing coming. It's called the vault, and it is for yes, anybody in leadership in childcare. Um we want to help you with systems that you might be needing um for instances like licensing, things like that. So we want to, it's a monthly call that we'll do as a team, and there'll be a confidentiality side, but also we'll do different trainings and things and get those in front of um all those that sign up and make sure that you are prepared. You can bounce ideas off us. Basically, we are here to help you and share experiences like we did today. We've both been from different, you know, we've both worked at centers and now private, like different areas and had different experiences. And I think the important part of the vault is that you have a place that's safe that you can express um what is going on in your world and get ideas from other people. And um it's just good to have somebody on your team, somebody on your side that's cheering you on, especially in leadership, because it can feel pretty lonely, and that's what we're hearing from a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Um, and leadership, it shouldn't be lonely. You need people to keep pushing you. Katie pushes me to do a lot more work than I want to sometimes. I do, but you need people to push you to do things, you know, and to keep improving yourself. Our licensing person in that ratio scenario pushed me. It didn't feel good, but she pushed me to be better. And since then, she's offered me a job. Full circle. You know, it does come full circle. I'm not going anywhere, don't worry. But it does come full circle, and we learn and we improve on who we are in all aspects of life. Exactly. If your center only works when someone's watching, that's not good. This is your sign. This is your sign to come to us. Yeah, come on that bounce ideas off, let us help you, and let's just do it together because there's too much of that. I've been a part of coaching groups, and I mean, the minute you stop doing the coaching group or different things, it's like we were forgotten about. Yeah, that is not this. No, we care about people. In fact, I literally have on my desk, and I'm gonna show y'all real quick. My little fortune cookie that I had forever ago, uh, from good old Panda Express. If you know, I love that orange chicken. Um but my little fortune cookie that stays on my computer says people first, task second. And I think the vault reflects that. People first, yes, and then let's help you get the tasks done. Let's help you find the best way with everything else, and let's have a good time doing it. Absolutely. Awesome. Well, thank you all for being here. We appreciate you, we appreciate all the support we've gotten through child care confidential. Yes, are amazing, really. Um, you've made this a lot of fun for us. So we just kind of did it as a side project, and now we're just loving it. So, hey, uh, let's get out there and keep talking. All right, we'll see you next time. Have a great day. Bye.