When Your Best Employee Becomes Your Biggest Problem

In this episode, Jessica and Katy dive into one of the toughest situations leaders can face—when a top-performing employee starts creating challenges within the workplace. From attitude changes and boundary issues to leadership struggles and team dynamics, they discuss how quickly a great employee can shift into becoming a major source of stress.

Jessica and Katy share real-world insight on recognizing the warning signs, having difficult conversations, and balancing accountability with support. They also talk about the impact these situations can have on staff morale, workplace culture, and overall leadership decisions.

Whether you’re a childcare owner, director, or team leader, this episode offers practical advice and honest conversation about navigating one of leadership’s most uncomfortable realities. 💡✨

Thanks for tuning in! 

If you enjoyed what you heard, we’d love to connect with you on more platforms. 

Want to share your own story? Submit it HERE:

https://gforms.app/M2SXBtR

Check us out on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/@ChildcareConfidential

Check us out on Buzzsprout:

https://childcareconfidential.buzzsprout.com/

Check us out on Apple Podcasts:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/childcare-confidential/id1841466272

Check us out on Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/show/5MV0chCDpmiXPaYbgtcnvi?si=70fbe1caf5fd4bb3

Stay connected and be part of our community!

Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61578842384016

Instagram: 

https://www.instagram.com/childcareconfidential/

TikTok:

https://www.tiktok.com/@childcareconfiden?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Hey, hey, welcome back to Childcare Confidential. I'm your host, Jessica Hampton, and this is my lovely co-host, Katie Dinn. Hello. We may have been dancing in the background during that insurance, so caught a little off guard today. But today we are going to talk about when your best employee becomes your biggest problem.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Or your biggest, you know what. But this this one, this one's uncomfy. It's gonna make you uncomfortable. Um it already has made you uncomfortable, but I'm so excited. Um, this one's about the employee that you love, right? The one that the parents rave about, the one that you never in a million years would think would be an issue.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Until they are.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Yeah. Yeah, that's tough. Um, you know, the employee that was amazing. The kids loved her, the parents requested her room. Yeah, they did. And if I'm being honest, she made your life a little easier. You probably devoted several hours and invested time into them because you saw all the potential that they had. Yes, you did, but but slowly things started shifting. Yeah, you might have noticed the little things at first, the cutting corners, saying maybe something that kind of caught your little eyebrows, or maybe ignoring small rules, or talking over their co-workers, and or maybe if they're in leadership, just trying to be BFFs with every employee isn't always the easiest or greatest situation, depending on who you are. You think so? You know, and we justify it as leaders. We justify it. Yeah, we hold on to people too long because, well, she's good with the kids, and I can pitch in and help out, of course. Here's the problem, y'all. Your culture feels everything before you address it. Yeah, your culture begins to suffer. It and at first it's the little things, yeah. And if you don't catch it quick enough and handle the situation, you are gonna be climbing back out of a pretty negative situation, yeah. Unfortunately, let me just jump in and tell you a little bit of that story, a little story for you. Okay. About an employee that I absolutely loved. She was my girl. Like, she was, you know, you just the teacher that comes in and you don't have to give a lot of direction to because they're doing the assessments, they're making it creative, they're investing time in their classroom, they're making videos, teaching videos on the side, like just to be out there and doing things with the classroom. Superstar, they help with leadership stuff when you need it, like they are on it. I had one of those. Doesn't seem like it went very well, you know, it didn't. And we talked before on a podcast about how I don't love ultimatums. Well, this employee that I invested in for a very long time, she was a great teacher, not a great management person. And you don't want to be man, not a great leader. Management's not really the word we use. Leadership. She wasn't great at leadership, yeah. Um, so you know, we started with small steps, be a team lead, you know, do these things. Right. Well, eventually she had gotten through school and was ready to move up in her career. And I didn't want to lose her. And so she came to me with one of those lovely ultimatums eventually, um, that I actually kind of accepted and let happen. Um, not sure who was thinking there because clearly it wasn't me. I knew that she was gonna struggle a little bit, right? But she really wanted that director role, and I she had a lot of potential. However, when I put her in that role, she really struggled behind the scenes and people weren't noticing it at her. I was helping, we were helping pick up the slack um in situations and try to help. Um we came up with different teachings and plans to help bring her to where she needed to be. Uh, but then I started to notice some things. Maybe she went to lunch. Maybe she had a drink at lunch and thought she was gonna drive a bus afterwards. She did not clarify. Um she wasn't drunk, she had a drink at lunch. However, that is not okay, especially in leadership, but not okay at all when you work with children, and you have to try this in the afternoon. Um, so I corrected that quickly, yeah, yeah from hearsay from other people, and and she was honest about it, really saw no fault in it. Oh that's so good. Oh, so we got more than just leadership. We're working okay okay, um, yeah, so we got through that situation, and you know, we're plugging along, and then I'm on vacation, yeah, and and uh we fly in, and I know the staff is all hanging out at the Mexican restaurant. Oh, I love the Mexican restaurant. Well, okay, maybe I'll just swing by, it's on our way to the house. Swing by and say hi to everybody, and so we did uh with my hubby. Oh, and we slung by, we came, we came in, but um the said staff member walked right past us because she didn't realize we were actually there because she took this whole staff out and had drinks and had a little too much. Um, and so that's you know, in leadership, don't drink with your staff, just don't like especially not too much if you do. I was gonna say, no kids present, so nothing that was endangered in that way, but it brought about a culture that that's okay, and it really ate me alive, to be honest. Like when it really did, like we built, we didn't we went in and sat down at the Mexican restaurant, okay, and they came back in afterwards, like didn't even know. And I'm like, they just okay. Um, but and so I ended up uh actually taking her home that evening because I was like, uh yeah, let me just drive you home. Not what I had planned. No, but but you know, we're there for people first, and we had some hard conversations about how that's not leadership, and it really stinks because I had this teacher with a lot of amazing potential who pushed and pushed to be in a role she wasn't ready for. Now, I was not being the best leader I could be by allowing her to step into that role even though she wasn't ready. What I should have done is go ahead and let her leave and experience that somewhere else because she was going to be leaving for a director position. Um, experience that somewhere else and protected our culture at our school. However, I made a bad leadership call in that situation, and I was trying to be sympathetic, understanding, she's got potential, we can grow this. And in the end, it just hurt me and us as a school. It hurt our culture. We had to come back a lot from that, yeah. Um, but it was tough, and you know, to this day, nobody knows who I'm talking about. We've had different people in leadership and different roles. Um, but you know, they left eventually because we were going to demote them to a different role. Um, and they didn't want that, so they ended up leaving anyway. So all I did was hurt the school, really. Like I prolonged the situation by just not calling everybody, um, but ended up leaving eventually, actually, to go become a teacher role in a different school, which is honestly the best call for them. That's why they should have stayed. They shine very bright in that room, they shine very, very bright in that role. Amazing teacher, yes. Um, but people don't know the behind the scenes, so now all of a sudden, you know, you've you fired because that's what everybody says we fired them, even if we didn't. Um, but you fired so and so, and they were such a great teacher, and we loved having and all this stuff, and you're going, smile and wave. You have no idea what's happening behind the scenes. You don't know, you have no idea. And if you knew, you would be telling me I made the right call. Yeah, but I'm not gonna share that with you. That's a staffing call, a leadership call. Um, right, not something that everybody needs to know. It didn't affect any of the kids in our school, it was just just bad leadership, to be honest. Yeah, um, but but it hurts. Like I've had a couple of employees that have left um that I really saw potential in, that I really tried to invest in, and I've cried when they've left. And I'm not a crier typically, guys. No, you're not. Um very rare occasion. Um, so it it was tough, but there are probably three or four that I I have really been upset that they're leaving, and this is how it's ending. Um, because I didn't want that for them. Yeah, I wanted to see them grow, I wanted to be their biggest cheerleader, I wanted all of these things, but you can't make somebody fit into a role they're not called to be in. Um, and that is hard sometimes. Yeah, I love that though, but it's so accurate. I think we've all heard it in all different leadership stuff all the time, and it's so funny because I sit there hearing it and I'm like going, yeah, that sounds great, and all this stuff, and then it happens to you, right? Like, oof. But you don't think it's going to. You never think it's not going to be you.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

You never think it's gonna be you, and then it just smacks you in the ass.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Sure does, sure does.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

No, okay, so I very much remember your experience with said employee from way back in the day, who we will not mention because obviously we're confident. Speaking in the world of confidential, I remember that I had a run-in once upon a time in a similar instance where this teacher was the bees' knees, a pre-K teacher of your dreams. The parents raved about them. They made little books as keepsakes for the parents to take at the end of the year. They they were the golden goose.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Why is it always the golden goose? Not the golden goose.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Well, but the best. And I literally knew if I was doing a tour, that's the classroom I'm going in to show these potential parents because the teacher's got it going on, all the things. Yes, yep. But then staff start to come to me on the side of this person's acting too big for their bridges. They're starting to control the day-to-day, even though they are not in management. They are now telling the teachers what they can and can't do. They're maybe being a little too strict and sassy with the kiddos. It's just turning into this very toxic, weird energy that nobody wants in their schools.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

So what do you do? You confront them, of course, and you're like, hey, what's happening, Golden Goose? You're giant, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Right. Like, hey, uh, so do you know you can't drink?

SPEAKER_01 13:46

But so this teacher was just like, oh, I didn't, I didn't realize. Well, no, it turns out she did realize. It ended up blowing up mega, where this teacher made all these little fires underneath of herself, ended up leaving on lunch, not coming back, screwed the entire team. It turned into a whole thing. I should have known better. I should have known when my staff came to me and started telling me that she was having issues and that she was being super like rude. I should have known. And I chose not to listen.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

It sure does. It sure does. And it happens before you know it. So remember like those quiet things that you're noticing. Um, you know, we've even talked about recently, actually, I think earlier today, um, we've even talked about like how, you know, staff working from home, like a men team, executive director type things working from home on different days or occasions. And, you know, Katie and I have had that conversation, and I completely trust Katie. I have no problems with her doing whatever she needs to do, um, obviously. But I can't say that I've always had that. Yeah. You know, and I think I noticed little things before with different people in leadership that I kind of put it aside because I didn't want to lose that person, or I didn't want to strain that relationship, or I, you know, I liked them, I thought they were gonna be great, and you're just holding on too long sometimes, I think. Yeah, yeah, not fun. Okay, but you know, you can't protect the one golden goose, yeah, strong performer, no, at the sake of the entire team, and you have to choose your team. And so I know I have been there a few times in the last decade or so. Um, and it's not fun at all. But you know what? That outcome's still gonna happen even if you wait six years too long. Um, it's still gonna happen. So you might as well face it while while you while you should, when you're supposed to. You're either gonna face it and correct the situation, or you're gonna face it and decide, just like we've said with parents, maybe this isn't the right fit for you. Um, but one way or another, that situation will come to an end eventually.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Well, yes, there's also a teaching moment though, behind all of it too. Yeah, I'm more so talking about like when they don't learn from the teaching moment.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

You know how many times that happens.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

I meant more so there's a teaching moment for us in leadership, Jess. Not so much, yeah, not so much at the employee that's just gonna have to go find where they shine.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

And sometimes you shine in different places than our school.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Okay. Well, a toxic high performer is gonna be more damaging than a struggling employee. And the second that you continuously give that special attention to the person who is bringing down your team, your staff are no longer going to have the respect for you.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

They aren't. That's true. That is true.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

They're gonna think there's no consequences, just that's your favorite thing. You tell me on like a daily basis that if there's not consequences, there's no way for them to learn to do better, and then I'm constantly gonna come in and be in superhero mode. And that's not fair either.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

No, it's not fair, and there has to be not, I mean, consequence is kind of a strong word, but there has to be like a plan to fix whatever's happening. Um, you mean they're not drinking? That's yeah, like you have to write down please don't drink at lunchtime. Maybe I didn't add that into my handbook, but you know what? I want to just make a note right now. Oh, please. The fun thing about childcare confidential is we are always learning, and right now I'm making a note but drinking at lunch not allowed in a handbook.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Good, good, yes, and then they can never say that we never told them.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Yes, all of our staff listening because we know how you love to make fun of us on you. No drinking allowed at lunch break, just so everybody knows.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Also, just a tidbit because you know we like to find humor in every aspect of life. That is how we decide to live. Um, Jess and I did have to make an amendment this past year to our staff handbook policy um that said teachers had to wear a brawl um when wearing tight shirts, because some of our staff said, Well, where does it say that?

SPEAKER_00 18:39

I mean, I'm all about free though, whatever. But maybe not at work. Could we keep if it moves, tie it down, y'all. Best philosophy I can offer you.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

But yeah, so if you didn't need, if you didn't know, now you do that you should wear bras and not drink while working with children.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

I mean, common sense says you're gonna jump up and down when you're working with children. You may not want them to hit you in the face. I don't know. But experience, experiences come on. And we're all learning, and that's you know, that's part of child care confidential. And why we started this is because we feel like we're all learning and we can learn from each other. So quick plug for the vault that's coming up soon. Um, make sure you get connected in our group and we connect, you know, at least once a month, and then we'll do side calls as well and different things. Um, but we have been working for about a year on this project, yes, and we are excited it's finally coming together. Um, but we need each other. We need to bounce ideas off of like, hey, what is your policy on uh not drinking at lunch? Think I can borrow that. We need those things, and maybe if I was in that group, somebody would have already asked me if I had a policy on it, and I've been like, oh shoot, no? I thought that was common sense, you know, things like that. So it's important to not only grow your schools, but grow the people around you. The invest in people, yeah, big deal, big time. Um, but like we said earlier, it seems like a lot of the high performers do end up being the toxic person. And I kind of wonder why. You know, yeah. I mean, your team is suffering, wondering if it's okay to be that way. They're struggling with like, hey, did she not hear when I said this person's causing a problem or are they just ignoring me? I'll be honest. Um, which I am always honest. Uh but I'll be honest, like, if a team member comes to me and complains about another team member, I'm gonna take it with a drink of salt. Like, sometimes people just don't like somebody and they want to complain about something. So, you know, I'm gonna watch and evaluate before I just jump to like calling them into the office and like, let's go on this. You know, I probably heard from four people that day that was like, hey, so uh somebody had a fun time at lunch, and then I was like, wait, what? Tell me more. And I'm like watching, observing, and then I'm going, no. Um, but you do have to address it, but make sure it's not just because somebody's bad mouthing somebody. Make sure that you you're gathering that facts. I like to give facts. Confidential facts. Um so yeah, it is interesting though that it is uh usually a high performing person. And I think part of that is because maybe that person is stuck in a role that they've outgrown. That's true. And so that could make them go. Well, I do this better than everybody else in here, and I'm the best teacher they have, and it kind of gives a big hit sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

And so we have to kind of watch that. So you're either bordering on the line of they're struggling because they're a high performer and they're stuck in this role and they're ready to move up, or they want to push faster than they should, and you should slow them down. So only you can kind of make that call knowing the person. Um, but I would say listen to your gut because I know I didn't listen to mine. So food for thought for your doctor. Yes. Listen to your gut. Oh man, yeah, good times, good times. Okay. And your friend at your school, uh, that you had such a great experience with as we were talking. Yes, she she kind of gets um behind the scenes uh stuff to you personally.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

I mean, when it gets to the point where the employee, you know, the golden goose that um you appreciated, loved, you decided to take their kids to XYZ for them after hours because they just needed that extra help because they're a struggling, you know, single parent. Um, you give them gas money because they say they can't get home, and you obviously don't want them to have that. So you are investing in these people. You are loving on them, you are giving them everything that you would hope that they would appreciate. And they turn around and call CPS on you, have them show up to your home.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

You're putting it all out there, okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Turns out, fun fact, I didn't do anything. So it was not. Um, but that just goes to show you that at what length teachers, even when they're loved on and appreciated, if they decide that it's no longer like fitting for them, they can flip the script so quick.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

So you need to know when that relationship is at a toxic point and you need to be done with it and cut it off. And if I would have, I wouldn't have put myself in that situation. So this is equally as much of my fault as it is theirs because I could have done something about it beforehand.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

Well, and I think that comes back to usually when you're in these situations, it does have something to do with our own leadership skills.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

That there's a reason we're not just, you know, calling it. There's a reason we haven't just said, hey, this just isn't a good fit. Uh for me, my big thing is people first. And I think for me personally, I fear not having a relationship with some of those people that I thought I devoted so much time into. And that's hard. That's hard. And it's it's hard because like we've done things for staff. I mean, buying their family Christmas gifts because we knew they were having a rough year or something, so we, you know, wrapped them all, gave them all to them. And then you see on social media them bashing you, yeah. And that's hard. That got me. I'm not gonna lie, that got me a little bitter for a minute. Yeah, it really did. Um, because or the girl, we had a staff member one time that we um I was unaware, but I did find out that they were living in their car. Oh, had no idea, no idea from almost everybody. Um, but it finally came out. So we actually paid for them to have a hotel for a month. Oh, and we gave them time during work hours. We were paying them during this to go out and look for an apartment. Like we had all the pay stuff lined up, we had everything lined up. Well, it had been a month into it, and still no apartment, but I'm paying her to go look, and so I had to put an end date on that free hotel stairs. So I gave her, you know, a little bit of time, and she ended up leaving right after that and telling everybody that I didn't care about mental health, and I'm going out of my own pocket, not the school money, out of my pocket. I just bought you a hotel room for over a month and paid you on the job to go look for an apartment. You chose not to help yourself right at that point because you had all the all the pay stubs, all the work history. I was jumping in and helping. Um, I would never co-sign for anyone, but I was jumping in and helping, you know, and providing resources. And then you leave as soon as I'm done paying for your free hotel. So and she called licensing on us.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Oh, there it is.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Yep. Always happens. It always yeah. So, parents, if you're listening, if your school gets a licensing visit, just know that sometimes they just come because somebody left and is upset or whatever. We have had them come so many times. We've even called them and said, Hey, uh, just so you know, so-and-so just left our building upset. So expect an email soon. You're probably gonna be coming out to see us. Um, so we try to get ahead of it, but it just happens sometimes because people want to find a way to like stab you back, kind of thing. They want to find a way to which is weird to get under your skin, and you know, it it hurts. We may be leaders, but we still have feelings, and so all of the Facebook posts and things like that, those hurt because you might be upset for a minute, but like that's my life, right? That you're messing with, and I did nothing but try to help you, and so that it it was a bitter pill to stop swallowed going into leadership and realizing that you you can't be everything for everybody. There you go, and you can't help people that won't help themselves. Kind of narrow it down to two good points, right? I was gonna say that was we're wrapped up.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

That was the whole episode, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

But uh just remember that respect will always matter more than somebody's talent. Respect goes a long way. I love, I love, love, love Katie, um, as you all know. But one of the refreshing things that happened when Katie came was the respect that she gave me. I have no doubt in my mind that if I walk into a room and Katie's talking to people, it's not about me. Not unless it's positive. I have no doubt in my mind about that. Um and because I know that we have such a much better relationship. Um we just we click because she's very much about respecting um people around you, and that just spoke volumes to me, which is why we felt like we need a whole culture shift here. There's no respect. Let's go, you know. Um, not just that reason, but that was part of it, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Yeah, no, I agree, you know.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

But it's been great, it's important. Yeah, it has, it's been wonderful. We love it. Um, okay. Last thoughts, Katie. Anything?

SPEAKER_01 29:38

I just I think that what you said the respect will always matter more than talent. I also have to say not just respect, but loyalty. When you were just speaking, you know, that's like my go-to. It is. Um I actually can't teach you how to be loyal. You have to already do that. I can teach you everything else, and I'm happy to, but you have to know who's got your back, who to go to when you need it, and who's really there for the right reasons and who's gonna elevate your program.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Absolutely. I think that speaks volumes to your program too, because if you're teaching those values at the core of everything you do, you shouldn't get to like the best employee becoming the biggest proud. Right. Um, you know, but teaching the values of just respecting, and we teach the kids social emotional skills. Why are we not using them as adults? I don't know. We could um, but you know, we've all had one, and we would love to hear your stories about your best employee that maybe didn't go so great, or maybe you and your best employee are still rocking it, and if so, we are proud of you because it is hard to find somebody like a Katie or a Jess in the team. Like we it's hard to find that connection, and it's hard to do it when everybody's running schools, too, and all of the things that go with that. So if you found your person, we're happy for you. If you're still looking, join the vault. It is our new um coaching thing that we're doing, and just kind of coming together as school leaders um or leaders in different areas just to talk and bounce these things off of each other because I know we all have a story, yes. So, and submit them, submit them, post, comment, share, like all the good things. We started dancing, we might as well dance it out and say, All right, bye, see you later, everybody. Bye.